Nero and DVDInfo pro read error reports

[leadan]

I've just been testing some of my DVDRs and Nero and DVDInfo pro both give a few(about 6-10) read error reports on some of them.
Is this normal or does it mean that the movies are likely to skip or freeze at some point when i watch them?

I saved one of the reports but i don't understand what it means.

Drive - PIONEER DVD-ROM DVD-116
Media ID Code -
Media Type - DVD-R
Read Error list
1. Error - LBA = 001d8130h

[jase1]

Hmmm... Errors in Nero on speed scan are usually high-level and therefore uncorrectable. Quite possible that not only will the movie skip but it may even stop and go back to the menu :(

1dxxxxh is quite close to the end of the disc, and might be in the extras area depending on the film.

Try doing the same thing with the writer. It might be a sign of your discs going bad -- might be an idea to recopy them. Are these old discs?

[leadan]

No mate they are new discs (Datawrite yellows) that i've done a few days ago on my NEC2500.
I know these aren't the best media but i avoided buying ritek because of the problems other people was having.
Do you think my drive could be faulty?
I'm running DVDInfo pro on a disc at the moment and at 88% it has so far got 219 errors.

[jase1]

ouch.

The Yellows are, as you say, not the best, but they should be error free when read back on a ROM drive. In addition the 2500A is known as a good writer with Princo media, one of the best as it happens.

Two possibilities therefore: faulty discs or faulty writer. There certainly shouldn't be that many errors on the discs.

I'd be more inclined to believe faulty media with Princo than the drive, but it's hard to say. If you got more than one spindle it might be an idea to open another one up and burn one of those as a test disc -- the batch codes vary from spindle to spindle.

The 2500A is quite a picky reader, and that can be used to your advantage. After you burn each disc, run up CD Speed, and go into File->Options->Transfer Rate and change the slider on "Test Length" to "Speed" rather than "Accuracy". You can then run a test off in less than 2 minutes. This isn't 100% reliable but a general rule of thumb is, if you test the disc in this mode on the 2500A and there are any slowdowns anywhere on the disc that don't go away when you do a retest, the disc is bad and should be binned. Quick and dirty method but I find it works in 90% of cases and should make sure you don't keep any more bad burns.

[Billy_Black]

Read errors are not normal. Seems totally unaceptable. I've had some pretty ragged Nero Speed Transfer Rate results... but at least no errors (the Nero or InfoPro test type).

Guess these folks must be a bit off the mark with there high praise for the NEC:

Brand:
Datasafe
Manufacturer: Ritek
Code:RITEKG04
Disc Type: DVD-R

Certified Speed:4x
Write Speed:4x

The result is again perfect! This is simply the best result we have ever had with ritekg04 discs. Highly recommended.

http://www.cdfreaks.com/article/134

[jase1]

Not off the mark, it's just that some drives are performing better than others. Strangely, I've found that while my NEC was bad with Riteks at first, it seems to have got better over time -- to the point where it's now burning them very well. I can't explain why.

It's the same thing with the 107, which was criticised for poor DVDR writing quality by the same site, but it seems most other 107s burn a lot better than OC-Freak's (presumably duff) 107.

[leadan]

many thanks for the replies and help.

jase1:I've not got any other batches of princo to try in the drive but like you said the NEC 2500 is known to be usually good with this brand of media.I'll have to get some other different types of media to try and then hopefully determine if its the drive or media at fault.

[jase1]

After you posted earlier, I dug out some Bulkpaq Oranges that have been troublesome with various Pioneer/LiteOn writers, and can report that my 2500A is the only writer so far that has written them 100% OK (well, the 106 did as well but that isn't mine). Must try some of those old manky V1 Datawrite Reds and see if they work OK as well ;)

I think the discs have to be pretty horrible before the NEC will write a coaster, if it's working properly.

[leadan]

Are you testing yours using the method in Nero that you described in your earlier post ?
I've used the way you said and i don't really understand how the results of the curve confirm whether there are read errors or not.
I found using DVDInfo pro to be easier to understand because it lists the errors.

[jase1]

I actually tested that disc long-hand, using a LiteOn DVD writer which has the capability to tell you exactly how many errors there are in each sector (the same way OC-Freak uses in his reviews). The disc is OK if there are less than 280 PI errors per sector, and 32 PO errors. This disc never went over 200 PI (average was around 60, it was averaging about 20 towards the end of the disc so that isn't too bad) and the PO errors never went above 6. There were no read errors at all on the disc, which is what you want.

The method I mentioned is a quick way of doing it. Usually a bad disc will start to slow down at around 3-4Gb in the NEC. The "Speed" option just makes it quicker. If the yellow line fluctuates *at all* the disc is suspect. DVDInfo Pro is good but it takes a lot longer so I can't be bothered ;)

[leadan]

The method I mentioned is a quick way of doing it. Usually a bad disc will start to slow down at around 3-4Gb in the NEC. The "Speed" option just makes it quicker. If the yellow line fluctuates *at all* the disc is suspect. DVDInfo Pro is good but it takes a lot longer so I can't be bothered ;)I tested one of my disks as you said and the curve looked ok right until the very end when it dipped a little,this same disk shows hundreds of errors in DVDInfo Pro.
So basically can i assume that any slight dip on the Nero curve indicates lots of errors?

So far of all the disks i've checked with DVDInfo Pro (which like you said is sooo slow) reports all the error after approx 90% of the test

[jase1]

It means the disc is suspect. This test isn't totally infallible. If you're in any doubt keep using DVDInfoPro.

The problem is, sometimes discs that dip at the end can be OK. When you run the test using CDSpeed in "Accuracy" mode does it get right to the end of the disc and report an error and stop scanning?

I have heard of false positives with DVDInfoPro, but they're usually a bad sign in my experience.

The discs will be bad.

[leadan]

I've checked the disk in accuracy mode and the curve had more dips than before and yes it got right near the end and stopped scanning and said failure.

Before I brought this drive I was hoping that i'd have no problems as long as i avoided ritek media,seems you can't win either way with the NEC 2500.

[Billy_Black]

I've haven't tested for errors in a while. I don't know if Nero CD Speed actually does (I believe it would). I would assume it would choke on them. I have had discs that DVDInfo proclaimed error free, but this didn't mean much because the Nero Transfer test showed that the drive had to slow down often to read certain parts.

You want a result similiar to this:

http://mars.walagata.com/w/mysticx/BeALL4X.jpg

This shows a good match/burn easily read by the drive.

Now this example will still probably play, but will probably cause some problems in some players:

http://mars.walagata.com/w/mysticx/RG04X.jpg

This disc was proclaimed error free by by DVDInfo, but I will not use this because of the dificulty the drive had reading it, after a firmware update though, I got this result with the same media.

http://mars.walagata.com/w/mysticx/RitekG044X.jpg

All good now.

This is what a disc that messes up at the end would look like:

http://mars.walagata.com/w/mysticx/badburn.jpg

On this next disc Nero did not report an error (as in the above example), but the disc hung up when I tried to play it.

http://mars.walagata.com/w/mysticx/liteon.jpg

People bad rap Princo, but these DVDPro Princos are a good match for my burner (although I avoid them because of longevity concerns).

http://mars.walagata.com/w/mysticx/DVDproPrinc4X.jpg

The nice clean lines means the drive is having a very easy time reading the disc and that your burner had an easy time burning it.

Find and always use media that produces results like this and stick with that brand. It's worked for me and if there is a problem I don't have wonder if it's a media issue. If you look at example 4 that's a RitekG03, those burn very nicely in my burner. What I mean by this is, one size does not fit all. I consider RitekG03's to be good media.... but they are a bad match (not bad media) for this Lite-on.

It also goes without saying that firmware should always be updated as this usually improves media compatabillity issues.

[jase1]

Yes that is a good description. The only problem with using CD Speed in the Speed mode is that if the disc only becomes bad in the last couple of hundred Mb, it may miss it due to only scanning certain blocks of the disc. The method will trap most bad discs however, and all of the ones mentioned above.

Princos can be quite reasonable -- and having tested a REALLY BAD Princo with the 2500A (one of the Datawrite Reds from when they were atrociously bad, just before they withdrew them from sale and switched to V2/AN31 media) and got a 100% readable disc out of the other end, I have to say that my particular 2500A is the best writer of crap discs I've ever used.

[leadan]

Thanks Billy_Black and jase1 for all your help.
I don't get the nice smooth curves like the ones you've posted.I've brought a couple of Riteks today to try so i'll let you know what the results are using these disks.
To be honest i've not heard of anyone else having problems with princo,as you said the NEC2500 is supposed to be one of the best writers of crap media.
Maybe my media is ultra crap.lol

[leadan]

I,ve tried the ritek and got the same bad results although i have eventually produced a perfect back up using the Datawrite princo.
What i've noticed is all the disks with errors are reported between 90 and 100% of the scan.The 'good' back up that i did today is only 3.55gb whereas all the others have used the full disk space.
Seems coincidental to me that the errors are always towards the outer edge of the disk and that the only 'good' back up i've produced is one which hasn't written right upto the outer edge.
I'm thinking its more likely to be the drive than the media.