DVD 9 to DVD-R - What is the best process?

[jsingh7]

I have some DVD 9 discs here that I need to back up.

They are greater than 4.9GB in size.

They do not have any audio channels that I would be able to lose nor do I wish to remove any menus or extras.

What software would you recommend I use?

I headed over to doom9.net and discovered two suggestions, one for quality over speed and the other section for speed over quality.

For example, using Scenarist NT & the big 3 (http://www.doom9.org/mpg/ra-guide.htm) (DoItFast4U, DoCCE4U & ReAuthorist) supposedly maintains quality.

And using something like DVD Shrink is quicker.

Which are most people using these days.

Is there much difference?

Any advice much appreciated.

P.S. I looked in the FAQs and the DVD Shrink tutorial does not take menus and extras into consideration.

[king$nake]

I find that DVDshrink does an excellent job.. you can get the latest version for free @ dvdshrink.org . I use Nero to burn, which is great as well.

[geobon]

Or you could try something like elby cloneDVD2 it rips compresses and burns all in one go, wether with or without menus/extras.

Info & Demo available here
http://www.elby.ch/en/products/clone_dvd/

[-JS-]

For example, using Scenarist NT & the big 3 (http://www.doom9.org/mpg/ra-guide.htm) (DoItFast4U, DoCCE4U & ReAuthorist) supposedly maintains quality.
It's an excellent method if you've got the time and interest to learn it. I use it on all my movie backups, unless they under 6GB, in which case I use ReJig instead of CCE.

However, currrently under developement is a one-click CCE tool (check over at the Doom9.org forums) and it's very promising indeed, so promising in fact, I've already donated.

Whether there's much difference or not depends on a number of things - the film itself (complexity, amount of action), what you're watching it on (a 14" crt vs a 100" rear projection) and most importantly IMHO, your eyes. I can see the difference between a DVDShrink and a CCEed movie very easily in most cases. It's really up to you

[PhilEnfield]

As -JS- says ... it's really up to you and what quality you are happy with.

As DVD Shrink is freeware, try it yourself and see what you think, with your own eyes
It has a Full Disk or Movie only option, so you can play with it in both modes, removing unwanted soundtracks, subtitles etc., to make more space for the movie.
Then either burn it to a DVDRW or view it on the PC, before committing it to a DVDR.

[nimbles]

get dvd-rb 31 (what -JS- was talking about) done three full backups with it now (removed a few crap extras/trailers/film company logo's with vob blanker)

that can use CCE to do the processing and quality is good- encoding will take a while though- example on my amd 2200xp+ 512mb ram (pc2700) takes about roughly 2hr's per pass and i've been doing 4 passes. Basically you can't reall use you computer during that time so bare that in mind too.

[jsingh7]

What exactly is the CCE method doing that something like DVD Shrink does not?

[nimbles]

Ok well i've taken this explanation from cd freaks:

Basically CCE is an encoder where as IC8, DVDshrink and nearly all other 1 touch solutions are transcoders


Compressing and Transcoding mean the same. Programs using this technique (compressed-domain transcoding) take the original MPEG2 video stream and, er, compress it. By doing so they lose quality. The technique involves 'lossy' compression, which means once done, it cannot be restored. Whether you can actually see the loss of quality depends on two things:

1. How well the original video was encoded
2. How much compression is applied

Your eyes, viewing equipment and tolerance also play a part! ;)

Encoding means creating the MPEG2 stream from scratch from the original video source (or a very good copy). It takes longer and the software costs more. To recreate a full DVD - as opposed to just the movie - takes a lot of time and effort, especially if you wish to retain subtitles. However, some people claim that this method gives better quality.

In the transcoder camp we have the likes of: DVD2One, CloneDVD, DVD Shrink, InstantCopy, DVD X Copy and DVD95Copy.
In the encoder camp we have: CCE, Tmpgenc and MainConcept (the latter being the usual encoding component of authoring tools such as Adobe Premiere, Sony Vegas, Pinnacle products and so on).

[jsingh7]

Thanks for that great definition.

Even though I want quality, the encoding method seems too long winded if I want to retain all menus and extras - which I do.

Consequently, I will take the transcoding route.

Now I will test both DVD Shrink and Pinnacle's Instant DVD.

[nimbles]

well general consensus is that IC8 is the better of the two quality wise, but:
a) out put file size is a bit iffy (usually around 100mb short on standard settings) use the IC8 hidden settings editor (ask lazza where to get it ;)) to up the size a bit
b) ic8 only ouputs to .pdi images which can only be burnt through ic8- look for a prog called PDItool to convert this to either an iso you can burn in any prog or the actual files.
c) file structure is a little ropey especially if you try to remove any extras- nero always flags IC8 generated VIDEO_TS folders (run through PDItool). i always ignore the warning from nero and burn- had one instanc of the simpsons which didn't work so well in my standalone- so if you have a picky/old standalone be wary of this fact
d) IC8 will not do the encryption removal for you- use either dvd decrypter or anydvd to handle the encryption removal (dvd shrink will do the encryption removal without the need of additional tools)
e) it costs money as opposed to to dvd shrink which is free

hope this helps

[-JS-]

Also, bare in mind that DVD-RB (the one click CCE tool I was talking about earlier) can also use ReJig (IMHO, the best transcoder I've seen) and QEnc (a free encoder similar to CCE) - which makes your backup 100% cost free.

[Jesterrace]

CCE is the best but it is very time consuming. DVD Shrink will do a great job for the most part. Make sure to use the Deep Analysis option for movies with higher compression.

[Billy_Black]

@ nimbles

I'm pretty sure you can burn IC8's PDI's directly with Decrypter (I'll have to try again but I think I've done it).

The original poster seemed to indicate he wanted the whole DVD, menus and extra's. For this IC8 would be a good choice, with no real reason to go to another program to burn or even save the files to the HD. I always found IC8's ability to burn a plus. I've had files created with Nero Vision Express that Shrink and Nero's own Recode refused to open, yet IC8 would open and burn them. I've had files that Nero said were too large for a disc that IC8 burned with no problems. With AnyDVD and a blank in the burner, it truly is a one-click solution. Start it and walk away, come back to a finished disc. The 'Movie Only' function also works extremely well in this fashion. I do agree that it can be a bit twitchy for those who like to remove things, but on large/long DVD's the quality is very nice (probably the best), especially considering there's no need for a lot of intervening steps or other other programs (except for decryption) and/or tecniques.

Better quailty will demand much more time, effort, study and money.

A demo is available and I believe it's a $29 download these days.

http://www.pinnaclesys.com/ProductPage_n.asp?Product_ID=1394&Langue_ID=7

[jsingh7]

Fortunately, Pinnacle's IC8 came bundled with my PC.

Has anyone got a guide for version 8? The only one I have is for version 7: http://www.dvdrhelp.com/forum/userguides/141024.php#dvd9instantcopy

@nimbles, what feature of IC8 hidden settings editor must I tweak with and what to?

Also, going straight to DVD rather than to file or in this case, iso first - will it affect the end result in anyway?

Finally, I tried a DVD using IC8 and found that it would not let me customise the compression of the menus videos, why is this?

I was able to do so in DVD Shrink.

Any help much appreciated..

[nimbles]

well straight to dvd may cause probs cos if you overshoot (file size wise- won't happen if you don't edit file size in the hidden settings but you're likely to only use around 4.2-4.25 GB of your disc)

you have to change the compression settings to "user defined" to alter compression individually- sorry i don't use ic8 anymore so can't remember off the top of my head where they are exactly

[jsingh7]

After trying DVD Shrink and IC8, because these are fast moving action DVDs with a lot of lighting, there tends to be a lot of blockiness apparent.

Consequently, I am going to attempt a method using CCE.

What guides are you guys using?

Also, if I have already decrypted the files to a hard drive, can I still do it?

[jsingh7]

Is CCE the only encoder worth using or can QuEnc do just as good a job?

[celtic_druid]

QuEnc is based on ffmpeg and other than any hacks by Nic will produce the same quality results as any ffmpeg/libavcodec based encoder.

As to which encoder is better, etc. This is purely subjective. I would suggest that you try both and see.

[Lazza]

After trying DVD Shrink and IC8, because these are fast moving action DVDs with a lot of lighting, there tends to be a lot of blockiness apparent.

Consequently, I am going to attempt a method using CCE.

What guides are you guys using?

Also, if I have already decrypted the files to a hard drive, can I still do it?Try ChickenMan's DVD-Rebuilder guide at www.dvdrbase.com (http://www.dvdrbase.com/) (you have to join btw to view the tutorials section) which uses CCE.

For a full disc backup you will not get better results, OK RB is a beta right now but for me it's worked flawlessly so far. Seems to be exactly what you need for high GB "Full Disc" backups if you are suffering any blockiness. Read a lot more about RB in the "One Click" forum over at:- http://forum.doom9.org/

And in answer to your last question then yes so long as you ripped the movie in file mode and selected all files.

[jsingh7]

Which version of CCE is the latest? SP 2.5, SP 2.66 or Basic? Which would you recommend

[Lazza]

Which version of CCE is the latest? SP 2.5, SP 2.66 or Basic? Which would you recommend2.67 SP is the latest or the Basic version therof.

Either will work fine with RB, I am still using v2.50 myself and from my understanding there are no real improvements in pic quality between 2.50 and 2.67.

So to answer the question any version should be fine.

You can check yourself to see the differences between the SP and Basic versions here:- http://www.cinemacraft.com/eng/spec.html

[jsingh7]

Thanks everyone.

Now I am ready to go...

Will post my results here.

Hopefully noticeably better than DVD Shrink's transcoding - but if not, at least I tried and know its the best I can get onto 1 DVD.

P.S. If I was to take the 1 DVD 9 to 2 DVD 5s method, does the disc change only happen during the main movie and can you set the point where this happens? What exactly comes on the TV when a disc change is needed? Also, when dual layer writers are more commonly used, will it be difficult to go from these 2 DVDs onto just the 1?

[jsingh7]

Just completed the DVD ReBuilder "copy" now...

Seems as blocky to me, but will do a closer inspection soon...

What I do wonder though is how the VBR settings effect the end result?

The guide recommended 2 passes and 3 passes for a longer MOVIE.

What does increasing the passes achieve?

Also, what are VBR bias and Quality Prec.?

Thanks

[nimbles]

ok a one pass encode would do a constant bit rate encode as the program can't know as it progresses through the film how much to allocate per frame etc and still meet the file size- so fast moving scenes and scenes where almost nothing is happening (and dark scenes) would all get the same bit rate.

on every pass the encoder can reallocate the bit rate so scenes that need a higher bit rate get it and scenes that don't can lose some (at the end of the day the overall/average bit rate is fixed) by the size of the output file.

The most marked differences i would assume occurs on the switch from 1pass to 2pass, and as you increase the number of passes the "improvements" decrease exponentially.

that's the way i understand it anyway- i'm sure someone more technically minded is gonna blow my explanation out of the water ;)

as for vbr bias and quality precision, i'd suggest getting a copy of the cce user guide (http://www.cinemacraft.com/files/doc/ccs_266e.pdf) for a proper explanation

[Jesterrace]

Also, bare in mind that DVD-RB (the one click CCE tool I was talking about earlier) can also use ReJig (IMHO, the best transcoder I've seen) and QEnc (a free encoder similar to CCE) - which makes your backup 100% cost free.So it's quality is pretty comparable then between CCE and QEnc? *EDIT* NM I found it. ;)

[celtic_druid]

You can do one pass VBR. If you are really compressing something you might want to pre filter it a bit. Could try using undot. Of course the more filters the slower the encode. Undot should barely make an impact speedwise though.

[jsingh7]

Try ChickenMan's DVD-Rebuilder guide at www.dvdrbase.com (http://www.dvdrbase.com/) (you have to join btw to view the tutorials section) which uses CCE.

For a full disc backup you will not get better results, OK RB is a beta right now but for me it's worked flawlessly so far. Seems to be exactly what you need for high GB "Full Disc" backups if you are suffering any blockiness. Read a lot more about RB in the "One Click" forum over at:- http://forum.doom9.org/

And in answer to your last question then yes so long as you ripped the movie in file mode and selected all files.
Lazza, you seem to have success with the program - what settings would you usually use for a DVD over 6 gigs in size, say about 7-8 gigs?

I think 3 passes VBR is one I will choose since any more and for the additional time involved I doubt it will be too big an improvement.

So what Prec and Bias settings would you recommend?

Cheers.

[Lazza]

The only setings I've used so far are these:-

VBR_Bias - 26
Ouality_Prec - 16

[jsingh7]

^^And with how many passes?

Thanks..

[Lazza]

IMHO 2 seems fine in almost all cases, I have used 3 on one longer disc but I still think 2 would have been OK even on that.

[Jesterrace]

Man I hope the quality is outstanding. What a pain in the arse this whole process is with Qenc.

[jsingh7]

I am attempting as many avenues as possible at this stage and then once happy with one, I will stick to it.

This CCE (not QEnc in the end) business using DVD ReBuilder is time consuming to say the least, and I do hope it will all be worth it (if not for me, but for the members of this forum when I let everyone know my decision). But to be honest, from what I have seen so far, the quality is not much more superior to DVD Shrink.

P.S.

I did hit one problem with DVD Shrink though, when attempting to transcode a DVD, even with everything being compressed, it still displayed red in the bar. Does this mean I HAVE to remove some extras?

Any idea how to resolve that?

[Jesterrace]

Yes, if a DVD is REALLY packed it won't let you keep everything. I personally just use the re-author method. I really don't care about the menus and extras so I never really have to worry about this sort of thing. What I would suggest doing is compressing the menus and extras as much as possible (without using still frames unless absolutely necessary).

[-JS-]

jsingh7: You could always run it through DVDShrink again after you're done, apparently that works sometimes.

Jesterrace: From what I've seen, QEnc isn't as good as CCE, but it's miles better than any transcoder. If it's the speed thats putting you off, give the whole process a shot with ReJig, which is a transcoder in development at the mo.

[Jesterrace]

It's not the speed that is putting me off, it is all of the technical garbage and program switching that goes along with it. It sounds like you are basically building a DVD from scratch by using that method. For most movies I can't even tell the difference between Shrink and the original in terms of quality. There are a few though where it would be nice to get higher quality. I don't mind putting in the time for these select few titles but all of that stuff that goes along with QEnc and CCE is just way over my head.

[Lazza]

It's not the speed that is putting me off, it is all of the technical garbage and program switching that goes along with it. It sounds like you are basically building a DVD from scratch by using that method. For most movies I can't even tell the difference between Shrink and the original in terms of quality. There are a few though where it would be nice to get higher quality. I don't mind putting in the time for these select few titles but all of that stuff that goes along with QEnc and CCE is just way over my head.Yeah but the whole point of Rebuilder is you don't have to understand CCE, set it to one click and it does all the hard work for you.

Once you have set everything up with the required files in the plugin folder of AVisynth then it's a piece of cake every time thereafter it really is. :)

[jsingh7]

^^Is DVDRB now at the stage where its output is compatiable with all DVD players?

Or is it hit and miss?

[nimbles]

its been fully dvd compliant from an early stage- there was an audio glitch that causes like a stutter at the change of chapter in certain cases but thats been ironed out as far as i can see- (only got an xbox and one standalone to check against- but neither of them show it)

if you really want to improve the quality that little bit more, use dvd shrink to compress the menus a bit (dvd-rb doesn't touch the menus- usually not an issue but sometimes you can have large menus) and get something like dvdstripper or vob blanker to to remove titlesets that you know you'll never want to see (stuff like trailers, and some extras)

its now on 0.35- jdobbs has reworked a few bits so encoding process has decreased by about 15% which is significant- looks like hes'bee working over easter :D

only thing it doesn't seem to like that i have come across is multi-angle dvd's although from experience these aren't the norm.

[Jesterrace]

Yeah but the whole point of Rebuilder is you don't have to understand CCE, set it to one click and it does all the hard work for you.

Once you have set everything up with the required files in the plugin folder of AVisynth then it's a piece of cake every time thereafter it really is. :)
Glad to hear it. Looks like I need to make another trip over to doom9.

[jsingh7]

its been fully dvd compliant from an early stage- there was an audio glitch that causes like a stutter at the change of chapter in certain cases but thats been ironed out as far as i can see- (only got an xbox and one standalone to check against- but neither of them show it)

if you really want to improve the quality that little bit more, use dvd shrink to compress the menus a bit (dvd-rb doesn't touch the menus- usually not an issue but sometimes you can have large menus) and get something like dvdstripper or vob blanker to to remove titlesets that you know you'll never want to see (stuff like trailers, and some extras)

its now on 0.35- jdobbs has reworked a few bits so encoding process has decreased by about 15% which is significant- looks like hes'bee working over easter :D

only thing it doesn't seem to like that i have come across is multi-angle dvd's although from experience these aren't the norm.
^^So DVDRB only encodes the main movie?

Menus and extras remain without being encoded??

[Jesterrace]

Quick question there fellas. There are two different versions of CCE over at Doom9. Are they any good. They mentioned something about displaying a logo. Does that mean that it would be like a DVD Screener with writing being displayed around the sides of the movie the whole time? Also if I understand this correctly. I run the disc through re-builder first and then have it go through CCE?

[-JS-]

You mean CCE 2.5 & 2.6something? They're both fine, but buy 2.6 otherwise you have to mess around with another program (eclCCE) to get 2.5 to work right.

Yes, the trial versions of CCE will display a watermark - like the trial versions of DivX.

ReBuilder does all the work for you - you only need to load rebuilder, set your options, and click go - then just let it do its job.

[nimbles]

^^So DVDRB only encodes the main movie?

Menus and extras remain without being encoded??
the menus are left untouched partly cos
a) they're usually so small that any compression is pointless (shrinking a 10mb menu to 6mb doesn't yield much for the rest of the movie)
b) often menus are just still frames which dvd-rb had probs with anyway

Extras will be re-encoded provided they aren't very small (<~50mb). Again the reasoning being you don't gain much and add time to the whole process.

I'm only mentioning the compression through dvdshrink because i came across a pretty hefty set of menus (~200mb) with pearl harbour, (partly because it has menus in several languages)- so if you wanted to save a bit on there you could (just make sure you choose a custom output size greater than the original disc and it won't do any other compression itself.

unfotrunately a program like vob blanker can't strip unwanted menus (at the moment) it only has the ability to "blank" (replace with a 2 sec blank screen of about 10k) actual video title sets (such as movies, extras or trailers)

[Jesterrace]

Okay I have both of them now. I just need the idiot's guide for how to set this up. I keep getting errors but I'm sure it's because I haven't set it up right.

[Lazza]

CCE 2.50 encodes aprox 20% quicker than the 2.6x versions btw Jester and most people having problems with RB & CCE over in the Doom 9 threads seem to be running later versions. I'm using 2.50 and no problemo is all I can say, newer does not always mean better. :D

[Jesterrace]

Yeah just saw that. BTW I saw something over at DVDRBASE that said I will need something to go along with the Demo versions of CCE in order for them to work. (eclCCE). Is that right?

[Lazza]

Yes you need to d/l that which you can get here:- http://home.t-online.de/home/340044300675/ Unzip it and just point the prog to your CCE .exe file and that's it.

[Jesterrace]

Okay but the question still stands. How do I set the thing up (ie source, working folder) in order to have Rebuilder and CCE work together to read and convert the files from the original disc?

[jsingh7]

the menus are left untouched partly cos
a) they're usually so small that any compression is pointless (shrinking a 10mb menu to 6mb doesn't yield much for the rest of the movie)
b) often menus are just still frames which dvd-rb had probs with anyway

Extras will be re-encoded provided they aren't very small (<~50mb). Again the reasoning being you don't gain much and add time to the whole process.

I'm only mentioning the compression through dvdshrink because i came across a pretty hefty set of menus (~200mb) with pearl harbour, (partly because it has menus in several languages)- so if you wanted to save a bit on there you could (just make sure you choose a custom output size greater than the original disc and it won't do any other compression itself.

unfotrunately a program like vob blanker can't strip unwanted menus (at the moment) it only has the ability to "blank" (replace with a 2 sec blank screen of about 10k) actual video title sets (such as movies, extras or trailers)
So part of the DVDReBuilder process is to look for only video greater than 50mb and compress those.

Does that mean if I transcoded some menus/extras to below this value, they would not be touched again - since I don't like the idea of a transcoded video then being encoded - imagine the results :sick: !

[PhilEnfield]

CCE 2.50 encodes aprox 20% quicker than the 2.6x versions btw Jester and most people having problems with RB & CCE over in the Doom 9 threads seem to be running later versions. I'm using 2.50 and no problemo is all I can say, newer does not always mean better. :DI wonder if that's because most of the folks with 2.6x versions <cough> are using <cough> cr@cked copies :D

I had problems with 2.6X, but I'm saying nothing ;)

[Lazza]

Okay but the question still stands. How do I set the thing up (ie source, working folder) in order to have Rebuilder and CCE work together to read and convert the files from the original disc?Well your Source is going to be the folder you ripped all the movie files to using Decrypter and your Working folder is where you want everything to go, i.e. the working temp files Avisynth/CCE creates and you final VIDEO_TS/AUDIO_TS folders with the encoded movie. As per screenshot below of film I've just started, note working folder though same title is on another partition so not same folder:-


http://www.uploadit.org/BaconBap/dvdrb_1.png




@ Phil - I doubt many people have paid the $1995 for the SP version of CCE m8 and very few people ever seem to be using the Basic version when they ask questions too. http://smilies.sofrayt.com/%5E/r/auskosten.gif

[jsingh7]

Phil, what types of problems have you encounter.

I guess I will stick with my 2.5 version then...
I have both so maybe a test is in order to see which has greater success.

A problem with 2.66 may be that even if cracked, its still considered a demo version by DVDReBuilder so needs to be accessed through eclcce?

Also, my question still stands, is it only movie files being compressed? I think an explanation of the VTSs would help.

[danman]

^ Indeed it does seem to view 2.67 as demo even when :-) modified :-) thus the need for eclCCE. Setting up was trial and error for me as I couldn't be bothered to read through 96 pages of bumpf over at doom. However within minutes I had it sussed. As a CCE veteran I'm amazed at the simplicity of this app. It's taken all the donkey work out of encoding whilst still leaving plenty to tweak if you prefer more hands on. Easy to adjust and set ammount of passes etc. 4 movies done to date without 1 single hic-cup or crash... all huge films with lots of extras (kept them all) shuch as Italian Job 2003 Seabiscuit, Spy Kids 3D. 5 passes and MINT quality all round. I love it.
^ it's deffo movies and extras if they are as stated above large enough to warrant the attention.

[nimbles]

VTS: video title stream- its what you see as "title" in dvdshrink- if its small it gets ignored.

menus don't get touched as i said before. They are always in vts_xx_0.vob and dvd-rb doesn't touch them

[jsingh7]

So only the VTS files shown in the Video Title Sets window of DVDRB are actually encoded.

How do I discover what each VTS is before hand and how do I know which VTS is which in DVD Shrink?

That way, I can transcode all videos that appear in menus to max compression, transcode black screens to stills leaving as much room as possible for encoding the "important" stuff.

This that sound right?

[nimbles]

yes only the ones you see in dvdrb's window

power dvd tells you which tile set it is in the console at the bottom- or if you enable "information" in the options- so does dvdshrink- if you open the "main movie" or "extras" folder you'll see what each titleset is- dvdshrink won't blank extras completely- best you'll get from it is still pictures which i think looks pretty bad- vob blanker or dvdstripper will blank it completely but as previously said it won't deal with menus

dvdshrink wouldn't further compress a "blanked" title set, its 10k~15k anyway.

[jsingh7]

Thanks for the information.

I won't be removing extras though..

As for menus with videos within them..are they treated as menus or video titles sets?

And what about opening screens, e.g. a moving logo of the distributor? Is that classed as a video set or menu?

I guess I will follow your advice and do the information option within DVD Shrink. Any belonging to a title set not encoded by DVDRB will be transcoded.

Will give it a go..

[Jesterrace]

Well your Source is going to be the folder you ripped all the movie files to using Decrypter and your Working folder is where you want everything to go, i.e. the working temp files Avisynth/CCE creates and you final VIDEO_TS/AUDIO_TS folders with the encoded movie. As per screenshot below of film I've just started, note working folder though same title is on another partition so not same folder:-


http://www.uploadit.org/BaconBap/dvdrb_1.png

Okay but whenever I try to select the source VIDEO_TS folder that DVD Decrypter rips them to in file mode, it is giving me a message saying that it is not DVD Format. *EDIT* Okay I am making progress. It has started to work but when it runs everything through it says the CCE output isn't setup.

[jsingh7]

@nimbles

Here are the VTS files DVDReBuilder encodes:

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/sjm.singh/1.JPG

And here are what DVD Shrink comes up with:

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/sjm.singh/2.JPG

As you can see, there are menus and titles. I am presuming the titles are title sets and I should look for matching titles to the VTSs that will be encoded by DVDRB and NOT compress those, but do all the rest?

Am I right in thinking this?

Also, what about Title 3,4?

Does that mean its part VTS 3 and part VTS 4?

Will this be encoded by DVDRB or not?

OR MORE LIKELY, I have completely misunderstood what you said?

[Jesterrace]

Crap, now I am getting runtime errors. I know I am really close to having this thing working. The whole thing transcodes but I am sure I have the output to CCE set wrong. What should it be set as?

[nimbles]

ok it says angle menu so i'm guessing the dvd you are trying to rip has multiple angles (i may be wrong) which isn't supported by dvd-rb- so ic8/dvdshrink may be your only option-

whoops sorry the vts_0x's mentioned in dvd_rb are the actual vob sets (basically your dvd will have vobs numbered vts_01_0-vts_01_x, vts_02_0-vts_02_y, vts_03_0-vts_03_z).

There can be multiple title sets within a vob- which is where the confusion may arise

you have at least 4 title sets, 1 & 2 being extras and 3 and 4 being deignated as the main movie.

As i said earlier, menus are stored in VTS_x_0, and dvd-rb doesn't touch those, just VTS_x1 and onwards (if there are more)

Forget about trying to match up menus to title sets- dvdshrink will treat menus and title sets independently.

[jsingh7]

So is it still possible for me to work out which bits DVDRB encodes? And consequently, compress the others by transcoding via Shrink?

[nimbles]

DVD-RB recodes everything except the menus and any titles that are less than about 50mb- :rolleyes:

[jsingh7]

OK, I will use that as my rule of thumb.

Sorry if I am being a pest.

Thanks.

[Billy_Black]

Been reading this discussion with great interest.

I was wondering if DVDReasy will give the same quality results on a Movie only backup.

http://pwp.netcabo.pt/dvdreasy/what.htm

[Jesterrace]

Okay so what do I need to set the output to in CCE/DVD Rebuilder in order to get it to work. That is the only snag remaining for me.

[Lazza]

Been reading this discussion with great interest.

I was wondering if DVDReasy will give the same quality results on a Movie only backup.

http://pwp.netcabo.pt/dvdreasy/what.htmGood point.

Looks a good tool but can only do one sound channel and one sub so as long as that is not a problem to you then it should be fine. Someone over at Doom9 forums did point out to me though yesterday that the new DVD2DVDR v2.0 will now do all this and a whole lot more inc Flipper discs. I tried finding a link trawling through their forum but my German is not good, I know the current version 1.81 will do movie only with CCE and the Gui is a lot more friendlier than using DVD2SVCD but v2.0 does sound very good.

[danman]

Jesterrace excuse my idiocy m8, but in what respect do you mean "set the output"? There are only a few settings to tweak so should be easy enough to help :-)

[Jesterrace]

Jesterrace excuse my idiocy m8, but in what respect do you mean "set the output"? There are only a few settings to tweak so should be easy enough to help :-)Actually I am the idiot here. Whenever I get the thing to work, it completes the who transcoding process but then it tells me that I need to set the CCE output correctly and shuts down. *EDIT* Nevermind. Too much junk to be bothered with. I have tried several different methods and the "so-called" one-click methods are just as much of a pain to setup as CCE. I will stick to shrink until D/L burners/media become cheap enough.

[Lazza]

Sounds like you have it setup so that RB is pointing to CCE and not the eclcce.exe file to me. ;)

[Jesterrace]

Nah, I didn't have AVIsynth or the other program, you could be right though. Either way though it isn't worth the hassle to me. I can't tell much difference between Shrink and the original so unless CCE gives me the option to make a noticeable improvement on the original disc, then it isn't worth it to me.

[celtic_druid]

If the source is bad enough and you use the right AVISynth filters then it is actually possible to get better looking results than your source.

I do have a modified copy of M2VRequant (ReJig's engine) around that can adjust brightness without re-encoding though.

[danman]

For the record and I don't know if it's already been mentioned yet but if anyone's experiencing any probs eith eclcce.exe you do actually have to run it once before doing any encoding this just involves double clicking it to open it up and then manually direct it to the CCE.exe (the one inside the custom technology folder)

[nimbles]

hey guys to anyone finding dvd-rb a pain in the a$$ to set up, heres (http://www.doom9.org/mpg/dvdrb.htm) another dvd-rb guide (upto date as of 15/04/04)

also a few guides for CCE Basic (http://www.doom9.org/mpg/ccebasic.htm), 2.66 (http://www.doom9.org/mpg/cce266.htm), 2.67 (http://www.doom9.org/mpg/cce267.htm), and QEnc (http://www.doom9.org/mpg/quenc.htm) for those just getting into the DVD-rb method and wanting to know a little more about the constituent progs.

[Billy_Black]

Thanks for the guides. Will have to look into the 'AudioDub(BlankClip()) is a workaround for a bug in certain CCE versions. Enable this if you're using CCE 2.5 and have an AMD CPU.' as I've got both.

I've finally got DVD Rebuilder .38 set up and running fine (thanks Lazza for the tip to point to eclcce and NOT CCE 2.50). The initial problem on chapter stop glitches seems to be fixed. A quick rundown of my latest successful endevor using 'Heat' (started at about 61%):

After a full rip with Decrypter:

1. Prepare took 6 min.
2. Encode took 282 min. (set at 4 pass). I'm a bit confused here as the posted CCE 2.50 guide infered only 2 pass was available (?)
3. Rebuild took 12 min.
4. Did the final burn with Burnatonce (a really handy program for -R mastering and audio). Ended up with a 4.33G DVD.

The final burn played fine in both my Sampo and JVC (which can be a bit more picky than the Sampo, but has quite a few more tweaking features).

Repeated the process with Shrink 317, with deep analysis (which pegged at about 62%), with the final burn being done with Nero. Obviously it was done much quicker than with Rebuilder.

Final thoughts. I was surprised that the Shrink version look pretty good, but the Rebuilder version looked very good. I don't know if my testing method is sound though. After a quick peek I usually watch both at 4X zoom hoping to magnify any flaws and I usually load the original in the Sampo and the burn in the JVC, start them together and switch between the two. Then loaded the Shink burn in the Sampo and the Rebuilder burn in the JVC (and vice versa) and switch between. The Rebuilder version was nicer and now that I've got Rebuilder set up it's not any harder to do than Shrink... it just takes longer. The next time I'll see how things go using AnyDVD.

One nice thing about the JVC is it has 4 VFP settings, 2 preset and 2 user configurable. I have one set up with a tad more sharpness which is the one I use for viewing burns (did not use this mode when doing the Shrink/Rebuilder test though).

I'l have to get to over to a friend with a larger set and a component video hook up to see how they look.

Being a Movie Only guy though, I would like to get DVDReasy to work, but so far no luck. On another forum where the author posts there isn't much activity... I guess not many are as interested in a Movie Only app, but the concept, just point it to the DVD, hit Convert and come back to ready to burn files is apealling. For some reason it hangs at the encoding stage (it's supposed to go start to finish with no more user intervention). Maybe someone has some ideas from this screenshot, note also the running programs in the task bar, 2 instances of CCE and a CMD prompt/window which is empty.

Any thoughts? Thanks.

http://mars.walagata.com/w/mysticx/dvdre2.jpg

[Lazza]

Aha, I've worked out who you are now m8 from this post. i.e. Your Doom9 and DVDRbase.com id's. :D

Yeah I've had a quick playaround with DVDReasy myself and it has lots of potential but IMHO is very buggy too right now, well compared to RB v0.39 it is very much so.

As regards CCE 2.50 I think there must have been an error in that guide as regards a max of "2" pass, surely that must apply to "CCE Basic" versions which can only do a max of 2 pass VBR.

Thanks for your test findings too, I say there is quite a big difference myself between a Shrink transcode and a CCE one especially on a long movie like Heat. Since changing my DVD player to a Teac last week I can really notice a distinct lack of sharpness on DVD Shrink transcoded discs that I honestly had not noticed previously in my viewing. I mean when compared to an IC8 or CCE encoded disc. They are just that much sharper. :cool:

OK I really love DVD Shrink and it's an excellent tool, but that does not mean it is the best tool and it never has been. It is the best tool in it's category though IMHO.

You said you prefer movie only, and in 9/10 cases I concur, have you tried running a disc through Shrink first and backing up as movie only with zero compression and then running through Rebuilder? Sounds a good way of doing it.

[nimbles]

with movie only don't need to really do that- you could just ripped the vob set containing the movies (usually the largest set) then rename to vts_01_1.vob to vts_01_x.vob and then create the ifo's and bup files in IFO edit.

I guess that akes about the same time though.

[Billy_Black]

Aha, I've worked out who you are now m8 from this post. i.e. Your Doom9 and DVDRbase.com id's. :D

Well I tend to get myself in trouble sometimes (hence the various nom de plumes :) ) I guess it comes with old age (as does my extreme laziness in the search for a one click solution). Hope I haven't once again ended up on anyone's sh*t list :)

Yes the Shrink first method makes sense, but I noted Mr. Rebuilders comment of some unknown variables that might be thrown into the mix, and that he didn't want to respond to any bugs that may occur with it's use, at this time at least. And I do wonder, even running uncompressed, what exactly is Shrink doing in it's encoding phase.

But considering the almost infinite combinations of hardware/software/OS's /codecs etc., of people's rigs it's rather amazing that things work as well as they do and I'm sure accounts for the 'works great for me posts'. One size does not fit all. And all DVD players are not created equal. Maybe at some future date I'll try DVDReasy agin, but for now Rebuilder is certainly worth it's few extra steps on those long/large DVD's.

I do admire Shrink and DVD2one for their great results and unbelievably small /tight code (both fit on a floppy with room to spare, amazing). And although 321 always seems to get a bad rap, their software does do what they say, with a minmum of fuss, with very good vid quaility.

Thanks for the helpful tips and original mention of Rebuilder.

[Ish]

i suppose everyone has their prefered method but the method i use is:-

1) rip with dvd decryptor (keeping all extras/soundtracks etc)
2) compress with IC8
3) pditools to convert pdi image to iso image
4) burn iso to dvd-r with nero

job done :)

[Billy_Black]

@Ish
Unless you have some specific reason for using pditools, IC8's resultant .PDI file can be burned to disc directly with Decrypter's ISO Write mode. No ISO conversion is necessary.

[nimbles]

yeah Billy_Black's right i' just found that out myself :eek:

[Lazza]

yeah Billy_Black's right i' just found that out myself :eek:Where you guy's been? It's been like that for oh must be a year now. :D

[Billy_Black]

Just a quick Rebuilder update, the chapter stop glitch still seems to be there as of version .40.

Things work great in my JVC (it's progressive scan if that means anything) but in my Sampo 612N (which has always played anything I throw at it) the time readout is always off between chapters. With .38 there was a visible glitch right after each stop. With version .40 the visible glitch seems gone but the time readout is incorrect, if I slightly rewind from the chapterstop the time changes by -4 minutes. The start of each chapter seems correct (matches the JVC) it's the very end of each chapter that the times do not.