What speed to burn DVDs?

[AkhilStyle]

Hi,

I just brought a 8x DVDrw. What speed is recommended to burn?

Thanks
Akhil

[noyfb™]

would burn at 4x max, on good media

i also have a 8x dvd burner but have not tested at 8x.

but i will stick to 4x anyway

[Jesterrace]

Hi,

I just brought a 8x DVDrw. What speed is recommended to burn?

Thanks
Akhil
Depends on which drive and what media you are using. Cheap media is not the way to go for higher speed burns (shouldn't use cheap media anyway).

[titan12345]

i have an 8 speed burner...never had the need to use it at 8 speed....15 mins for a quality picture is fine ... cant see the point in getting faster and the risk of skips

[LiquidMercury]

So why buy an 8x burner guys if you have no plans on using it at that speed? :confused:

- Merc.

[Jesterrace]

Agreed. You can still buy 4x burners and they are dirt cheap so you might as well go with them if you don't want to burn at 8x. I don't know that I would trust 8x burns either but if I had an 8x writer you can bet your arse that I would try. ;)

[LiquidMercury]

I just remember a whole bunch of people 'in the old days' that had 16X-24X burners (cdr burners mind you but still applicable to the argument) and claiming they still burned at 2x's. Bollox to that nonsense. Mind you this was at BST and I'm convinced they only said that to bs potential customers.

I can't recall ever having a bad dvdr burn at 4x's with respect to any audio or video skipping (wait once, on Sorority Boys)...nevermind, lol. :laugh:

- Merc.

[Jesterrace]

Life's little embarrasing moments eh, Merc.? :laugh:

[LiquidMercury]

Ah c'est la vie eh? :)

- Merc.

[Qube]

:beer: I use a liteon DRW 1s81 , 8 speed +R's on probs, no skips, etc

It works perfect a full dvd takes around 8 mins, Xbox backup perfect quality,
I can write at 8 speed on a few 4 speed +R discs.

[AFSTER]

I always burn at 2x for some reason hehe

But me m8s all burn at 4x and they never have problems

And with most peeps, i dont think i could burn at 8x and think its gona work untill media gets better

I thought there wasnt even 8x media?

[jase1]

Most 8x drives I've tested have given better quality 4x burns than their 4x predecessors. The laser optics seem to be higher quality and so can track a marginal disc far better. For example, putting aside the NEC2500A's deficiencies with Ritek G04, it can write Princo, Yi-Jhan and Lead Data 4x media better than any 4x I've ever used.

There is a lot to be said for running any piece of hardware slower than it's potential speed. For example, a 2l engine will be far less stressed than a 1.3 at 100mph, even though the 1.3 can travel at 100 quite happily it'll be noisier and the ride will be inferior.

CDR was the same. A 16x CD writer could usually only write select 16x discs correctly. A 48x will write just about any old piece of crap, even some 2x and 4x discs at 16x -- and write them with higher quality than the 16x was writing the premium media.

[dragonmaster]

I just remember a whole bunch of people 'in the old days' that had 16X-24X burners (cdr burners mind you but still applicable to the argument)
i still have my HP writer @ 8x ??? ;) it's an hp 9100 writer hehe had this baby for 3-4 years? hehe still haven't die on me yet.. interestingly enough... most people won't have any problem burning at high speed... one time i remember.. burning high speed 48x on my samsung combo drive.. place it in my comp works fine.. but then place it in my cousin drive.. (also a CD-RW 52x) won't read it. :confused: But try to burn it again with my 8x (HP) drive works fine. I would add that it all depend on the CD/DVD you use and the speed sometime ;)

[Jesterrace]

Gaming applications are where burning speed issues seem to show up the most (PS2 and XBOX). For DVDs I always burn at 4x (I have a 4x writer) and never have any problems but for CD-R I won't touch anything above a 4x burn. The noise that the console produces from the games burned at higher speeds is enough to convince me to take it easy for CD-R. For music and other applications I always burn at max speed on CD-R though and I have never had any problems.

[Qube]

Gaming applications are where burning speed issues seem to show up the most (PS2 and XBOX). For DVDs I always burn at 4x (I have a 4x writer) and never have any problems but for CD-R I won't touch anything above a 4x burn. The noise that the console produces from the games burned at higher speeds is enough to convince me to take it easy for CD-R. For music and other applications I always burn at max speed on CD-R though and I have never had any problems.
Xbox backups 8 speed no problems, if it will write at 8 speed it'll work if not probably dusty media, or hard drive not quick enough (Defrag it), split the ide channels or use a controller card. I've had more failures thru session fixation at 2 - 2.4 than speeds of than 4 - 8. if you bring up the administrative tools, click on performance to bring up the cpu graph, Writing at 8 speed only takes about 6-8% of the cpu use, Using A liteon DRW 1s81 dvd writer ,3000 Xp CPU, 120Gb Samsung ATA 133 Hdd. At eight speed its writing at 11080 but the hard drive is capable of reading 50000+, so there should be no probs with the cache, Give it a GO

[jase1]

I agree with the give it a go sentiment -- just because one burner produces CDs or DVDs that don't read well at x speed doesn't mean the next one will as well.

As for the "only burn CDs at 4x" argument, well I can only say that even the media manufacturers acknowledge that modern high-speed media burns better at 16x or above than 4x, and some go as far as to explicitly recommend you *don't* burn at 1x or 2x as the discs are not designed to be written this slowly. The general rule of thumb for CDR media has always been that the optimal write speed is one half of the rated speed, so modern 48x discs should be written at 16x or 24x for the best results. This has been borne out in a number of tests; slow burning with new media is overloading the dye just as much as high-speed burning is with old media.

[geobon]

So why buy an 8x burner guys if you have no plans on using it at that speed? :confused:

- Merc.The same reason people buy 3ghz+ processors m8, Its called upgrading, When something new/faster comes out you sell your older/slower model and put a few pounds to it and buy the newer one, or you could always wait till your older one packs in and pay the full price for the newer one, Makes sense in my books, and ive never writen @ 8x either my reason is as above its costs less in the long run and your always covered by a warranty.


Jase1, I disagree m8 and the reason i give for this is i burn lots of CD+G discs and this is where you notice that speed does sometimes matter, On a whole though most data and audio are fine at high speeds, and sometimes with certain brands of media that wont play on a certain devices sometimes do play if you lower the recording speed.

[Network Enforcer]

Like it was mentioned before, it depends on the drive and media. I use 1x Ritek (burn at 2x with firmware hack) and 4x. I know Plextor is coming out with a 12X DVD+r with 8X DVD-r Drive. Since the trend seems to go up, I assume shortly that we will have more 8x than 4x just like there seems to be an increase in use of 4x media as opposed to 1x media.


Network Enforcer

[jase1]

Jase1, I disagree m8 and the reason i give for this is i burn lots of CD+G discs and this is where you notice that speed does sometimes matter, On a whole though most data and audio are fine at high speeds, and sometimes with certain brands of media that wont play on a certain devices sometimes do play if you lower the recording speed.
Well yeah a lot of it does depend on media type and indeed the recorder you use. I don't personally think it's as simple as "lower the recording speed and things will improve"; I have had some experiences where raising the speed with some media has improved playability no end. An example was the old, *good* Mitsui 16/24x media; burn at 16x or 24x on my old Teac 24x, discs read on anything; write at 2x or 4x, coaster city -- discs burn but won't read back in the car, on the PSX, the portable in the kitchen......

It's the old synergy issue again; some writers can calibrate some media better at higher speeds, sometimes the reverse is true.

[Jesterrace]

It also depends on what you are going to play it in as well. ;) Meaning that each DVD Player/Game Console, ect. may or may not read it at certain speeds no matter how good your media/burner is.

[jase1]

I totally agree. The point I was making though was that "certain" speeds doesn't necessarily mean "higher" speeds. The reverse can also be true.

[Ish]

i always burn everything at 4x on my 4x pioneer BUT i always use good quality ritek media. i had a lot of bad burns trying to do 4x on cheaper media like datawrite etc

[COBRA37]

I use a pioneer 107, tried burning dvd master ritek discs at 8X but had quite a few problems like errors at the beginning of the disc and the picture breaking up. Went back to 4X had no problems.

[Qube]

i always burn everything at 4x on my 4x pioneer BUT i always use good quality ritek media. i had a lot of bad burns trying to do 4x on cheaper media like datawrite etc
:wavey: I burn alot of datawrite reds and yellows at 4 speed no probs, perfect everytime, problem is alot of people are blaming the media, your problem lies with your burner (firmware) or pc, i've burnt over 100 datawrite red v2 at 4 speed with liteon 1s81 writer and nero 5, without a problem, Compatible with all dvd players so far and xbox.

[Qube]

I use a pioneer 107, tried burning dvd master ritek discs at 8X but had quite a few problems like errors at the beginning of the disc and the picture breaking up. Went back to 4X had no problems.
I've burn Ritek G04 datasafe media +r 4 speed, at 8 speed with no problems.

[geobon]

:wavey: I burn alot of datawrite reds and yellows at 4 speed no probs, perfect everytime, problem is alot of people are blaming the media, your problem lies with your burner (firmware) or pc, i've burnt over 100 datawrite red v2 at 4 speed with liteon 1s81 writer and nero 5, without a problem, Compatible with all dvd players so far and xbox.
Well all i can say in reply to this is im glad i dont get any dvds from you, I aint a novice when it comes to burning dvds so when i read posts like this it makes me wonder if im not doing something wrong as these discs are total garbage, try playing them in 3 months time, As for the yellows they started off being reasonable but there was that many dye revisions being used that it was a case of hit and miss with them but the reds are total sh@t and how you can praise them is beyond me.

[jase1]

1) I have 6-month-old reds which are fine still, so I don't know where that comes from. The early AN31 discs were bad, but they seemed to sharpen the quality up after a while. I also have some Reds which I haven't written on since opening a spindle six months ago; these weren't that great then and they aren't that great now, but if the dye had degraded in the meantime, as per your assertion, they would be unwritable now (it's a lot more difficult to write on a rotten disc than read one!!!) -- and yet they're the same mediocre quality they always were. I also have some media which must be 2 years old by now -- it was a sample of Infodisc's "fake-Maxell" media (in reality it was test media which should never have been sold, but life doesn't work that way) and came from the same factory using a very similar dye formulation. Media still OK -- still has trouble with the last 400Mb but then it always did.

2) The yellows did not go through dye revisions. They went through phases of e-net dumping sub-standard Princo media on unsuspecting punters. The discs have fundamentally remained the same.

There really are no such thing as "bad batches" as such (ask yourself where the bad batches of Panasonic or genuine MCC media are). The manufacturers know when a disc is bad, and bad discs from the like of Princo surface predominantly because cheap companies continue using stampers (which have a limited lifespan) until they age to the point where the discs are no good. Princo seem to have lower standards when it comes to stopping production with each stamper, so there are a lot of left-over graded discs that get sold off cheaply. If distributors want to sell this reject stock off as grade A that's their concern.

And in 9/10 cases if a disc won't read after <1 year, it's because the low-level error rates were high in the first place. A reason why testing discs properly, regardless of what manufacturer you choose, is a good idea.

It's one reason I don't bother trading any more. People will send discs with high error rates, and I refuse to accept them -- and many of those are Riteks which people erroneously think are OK because of misleading statements proclaiming their universal compatibility with all recorders. Ritek would never claim their media is 100% compatible with all recorders; to do so would be foolish. So why do others persist in doing it? For information, burns on most Ritek discs with the LiteOn 451s, for example, are marginal, not good. They work, but they aren't perfect.

I've only ever had one manufacturer of DVDR media that has systematically gone down over time -- these were Vivastar, and they're no longer in business. Ironically, I seem to recall these being a "preferred" brand on a lot of forums at the time.

[Qube]

As jase1 said the early AN31 were bad, but no probs with the V2 An32,they just can't be compatible with your writer. The new datawrite V3 are out now and have been rated at 8/10, writing upto 8 speed on -r format, they must be doing something right ?

[geobon]

Heres what people that know what their talking about think of AN31 discs, If you's disagree then fair enough.

www.digitalfaq.com/media/dvdmedia.htm (http://www.digitalfaq.com/media/dvdmedia.htm)

[jase1]

1) Written six months ago, although updated recently. Early AN31 media was chronic, and I'll be the first to agree there. But when the LiteOn KProbe test of the latest AN31 batches reports error rates actually quite a lower than Ritek, and almost on a par with the latest Prodisc S03 media, against original AN31s rating way below Princo, there has definitely been a massive improvement.

For info (note all of these discs still read OK):

Old AN31: PI average 500, max 950; PO average 0.7, max 50
Ritek: PI average 5.5, max 40; PO average 0.04, max 10
New AN31: PI average 3.2, max 34; PO average 0.05, max 6
ProdiscS03: PI average 1.7, max 17; PO average 0.015, max 7
Typical Princo: PI average 75, max 180; PO average 0.2, max 20

Some other results...

Bad Princo: PI average 220, max 450; PO average 0.8, max 80 (right at the end)
Reject Princo (Datawrite Red when everyone found they didn't work any more): PI average 600, max 1550 (count only goes up to about 1600!!!); PO average 30 max 250. In other words a total coaster.
Taiyo Yuden: PI average 0.6, max 8; PO average 0.006, max 3

Specs dictate PI must not go above 280 for any significant part of the disc (spikes are OK), PO must not go above 32. Any disc above those ratings is out of spec. All measurements at 4x, 8ECC, on a LiteOn 851s DVD burner.

So, old AN31 terrible, new AN31 more than acceptable. Ritek and Prodisc S03 very good, Princo ranging from OK to rubbish, Taiyo Yuden absolutely excellent.

Also notice where early Ritek media is placed on the site you quote, oops!!!

2) Note what he says about deterioration of media ;)

[paxrax]

ah well, in my honest opinion, writing 4x discs @ 8x is completely hit and miss. got a 107 with revised firmware ;-) and anything i burn at 8x that has a menu at the biginning wont play on a standalone. burn at 4x and alls fine. never mind, 20p for table protection aint bad i suppose!

[Jesterrace]

20p? I don't want to think about the quality of the media that you are using if it only costs 20p per disc. I would say the media is the reason for the hit and miss and not the writer/firmware.

[jase1]

Depends if this 20p media is old 1x stock...

I've seen a number of deals on 1x media lately, because resellers are desperate to get shot of it.

Princo 1x for 16p each... works perfectly well at 2x.
Infiniti/Sony 2x for 22p... works at 6x, perfect at 2x on at least 10 writers I know of.
Optodisc 1x for 25p... fine 2x again.

And some even cheaper ones...

Fake-Maxell 2x for 11p(!!!!!)... complete garbage, but they do work at 2x, just some readers have problems toward the end. For temporary RAR-holders and the like, not bad for the money.

And a few others I didn't take up. I was even offered some no-name silvers which were known bad past 3.5Gb, but were only 9p each. Didn't buy any because I had to purchase in blocks of 200 and I had no cash on me at the time.

[geobon]

1) I have 6-month-old reds which are fine still, so I don't know where that comes from. The early AN31 discs were bad, but they seemed to sharpen the quality up after a while. I also have some Reds which I haven't written on since opening a spindle six months ago; these weren't that great then and they aren't that great now, but if the dye had degraded in the meantime, as per your assertion, they would be unwritable now (it's a lot more difficult to write on a rotten disc than read one!!!)
And whats AN31 got to do with it, Yes i dont like AN31 discs, But it was datawrite reds we were talking about and the dye variations, And if you don't already know then they have changed dye's again on the reds and it certainly isn't AN31.

[jase1]

Datawrite Reds (V2 ones anyway) have always been from the same factory. The manufacturer is Infosmart Taiwan, and they intermittently manufacture discs with AN31 and Infosmart MID data on the discs (and occasionally AN32, AML and AN35). They are the same company who make AML, Infosmart and MEDIAID001 discs for the +R format as well.

All that has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with "dye types". All the above types of disc use exactly the same dye formulation, but the stampers they use chop and change from batch to batch.

I merge all of these different MIDs together because they are the same disc manufacturer using the same dye. The fact that one batch comes out AN31 and the next Infosmart, does not mean they use different dyes.

When a good disc turns bad, it *isn't* because they've changed dyes. When the MID info changes, it *isn't* always because they've changed dyes. As I have said over and over again (and have apparently been ignored), the variances are due to nothing more than manufacturing tolerances; mainly due to either the stamper being used over-age, or continuing to be used after it has been damaged, or else there has been an error in the dye application process.

All V2 (and V3) Datawrite Reds are, to all intents and purposes, AN31 discs. Some come through as Infosmart because these are imported essentially to cover the tracks of the manufacturer and distributor; Infosmart is licenced, AN31 is "development" media and unlicenced for consumer sale.

To put things into their correct perspective, Taiyo Yuden could buy in a quantity of Princo's dye formulation and make a run of consistently perfect DVDRs, the equal of the best disc Princo has ever produced. Princo could then buy in some of TY's dye, and all other variables being equal, produce a run of discs just as hit and miss as their usual Princo-dye product. Why? Because the effect of dye in disc manufacture is overstated, and the quality of discs is 80-90% a product of the manufacturing process, not the raw materials.

[Jesterrace]

Depends if this 20p media is old 1x stock...

I've seen a number of deals on 1x media lately, because resellers are desperate to get shot of it.

Princo 1x for 16p each... works perfectly well at 2x.
Infiniti/Sony 2x for 22p... works at 6x, perfect at 2x on at least 10 writers I know of.
Optodisc 1x for 25p... fine 2x again.

And we all know that those are the greatest quality brands. :rolleyes: Sorry man there are no shortage of complaints about any of those brands. My point still stands. 20p does not = a quality disc, even if they are 1x. Also he was talking about writing 4x media at 8x so they couldn't possibly be 1x discs.

[jase1]

There are no shortage of complaints about Riteks either to be perfectly honest ... have a look at cdfreaks' forum for a whole load of experienced burners who think the discs are overrated.

I'm not one of them, having never had an issue, but that isn't to say they don't exist!!!

[geobon]

Yep and iv'e heard them all before. I go with what plays on my hardware, for an instance Jase, i can burn a bulkpaq (prodisc) at 4x and a ritek (G04) at 4x and run both through various software ie cdspeed. K-probe and the (prodisc) can get better results, But playing the same 2 discs in standalone player giver me a very different outcome, the ritek play flawlessly throughout whereas the prodisc starts skipping and freezing near the end of the disc, What im basically saying is my opinion on media is based on compatibility and experience and testeing on hardware and not some software, im not saying your opinions are based on software but as you know some peoples are. Im not saying that ritek are the best either its just at the moment there the most compatible with my needs as theres to many different verbs going about and here in the UK taiyo yuden aren't very easy to come by. Lets just say without going into detail that the discs i burn have to be compatible with the majority of standalone players and at this moment in time the best disc for this is ritek.

But jase m8, on a serious note all reviews on media are based on price, you might disagree, but if all media was the same price, would you still buy datawrite reds?

[Jesterrace]

I agree but there are more complaints about the other brands listed above than with Ritek. IMHO Taiyo Yuden is probably the most trouble free of them all but it also costs about twice as much. Anyways it is a non-issue as the guy was talking about 4x media. What 4x generic peice of crap can be had for 20p? :eek:

[jase1]

Well I use disc compatibility as a guide to disc quality as well -- and have to say that the good S03s (which doesn't mean Bulkpaq, just as a good G04 doesn't mean some nasty overprint) are both higher quality *and* more compatible in standalones. Others may disagree, but it is my belief that Prodisc S03 media is made to a higher standard than Ritek G04. Yes the Bulkpaq S03s are low-grade media, and on certain writers have trouble with the last 300Mb or so (these appear to be overaged-stamper media from where I'm standing because the same media works extremely well in the NEC2500A and Pioneer 107, so there is no dye defect, it's the data track that's not that great -- at least that's what my batch are like; the landscape G04s I have suffer from the exact same phenomenon, and don't read well past 3.8Gb when burned on older writers). I would also throw another oar in and say that Postech G04 is an equal to Ritek G04 in both quality and compatibility, again in my experience.

But regardless, what I was trying to point out is that the Infosmart(/AN31) media has without a doubt improved a great deal since it first came out. Infosmart are a comparatively new company, and like Ritek a year or two ago, or Prodisc for that matter, they must go through a learning curve. You are aware that the "V3" Datawrite Red discs are *no* different to the V2, aren't you? It's just a marketing ploy by a wise Datawrite who know their media is better than it was even 3-4 months ago.

As for whether I'd buy the AN31 media if it was the same price as Ritek, no I wouldn't. I never claimed it was equally as compatible as Ritek. It isn't quite there. But by the same token, if Ritek was the same price as TY, I wouldn't touch *any* other media with a ten foot pole. Fact is though, that this cheaper media is cheaper.

And you're right Jesterrace, I have not come across any decent 4x media for 20p. Well, that's a lie technically; I bought some overfill discs from Bigpockets last month. 80% were 4x media; about 30% Riteks, 40% Princos (this batch of which work OK for me, and seem to be compatible as well) and 20% AN31s/others. The rest were 1x. Thing is, these were £20 for 100. So this could be the media mentioned -- and some of my lot were Ritek!

[Jesterrace]

understood. you made some good points there.

[PhilEnfield]

I suppose it's inevitable that everyone will have their own ideas/preferences, when it comes to media and will speak of their own experiences (good or bad).

At he end of the day, however, it all boils down to what works for you and what degree of error (coasters) you are prepared to accept.

Clearly ... if money is no object, then Taiyo Yuden, Pioneer, Maxell etc. is the way to go, but if budget is high on your consideration list, then Ritek is a good all rounder, subject to your burner, of course.

I've been using Pioneer drives for a couple of years now (different models) and have recommended these to many friends & family. The Pioneers seem to love Riteks G03's & G04's and they certainly seem to be compatible with a wide range of standalone players, but it would be silly to claim 100% .... my guess would be 95%.

Of all the Rieks I have used ..... Traxdatas, Datasafes, Ridisk, Ridata, Ritek branded, Ritek unbranded, I can honestly say that my Pioneers have loved them all.
It may be a different story though, if you have a NEC drive.

IMO the main advantage of using Riteks (not overprints though), is because you are always certain of the dye type and it wont have been changed, without your knowledge, to a cheaper/rubbish dye, which has been a nasty practice, adopted by Datawrite, Bulkpaq, Mirror and many others.
What seems to happen here is these suppliers flood the market with a cheap disk, which has a half decent dye. Everyone discovers it and recommends it to others .... then they swap the dye without notice to CMC or some other garbage and everyone gets ripped and ends up landed with spindles of useless blanks. This then spawns endless forum posts from folk, suggesting only burning 3.9gb to the disks or burning at a slower speed .... but if the disks are decent to begin with, this should NOT be necessary. All my burns on my 106 are 4 X on 4 X media, which is what it says on the tin and anything less than that, IMO is unacceptable.

I appreciate that Riteks are not the only disks to prove reliable and there have been a few problem batches over the years, but nowdays, if you are looking for consistency, minimum hassle and a good "all rounder" at a decent price, I would recommend Riteks over any of the Princo/ANC 31 rubbish ....... unless of course you have a quirky/picky burner.

[geobon]

I agree but there are more complaints about the other brands listed above than with Ritek. IMHO Taiyo Yuden is probably the most trouble free of them all but it also costs about twice as much. Anyways it is a non-issue as the guy was talking about 4x media. What 4x generic peice of crap can be had for 20p? :eek:
Datawrite Reds (Well just a little over 20p) "26p" Dosen't that tell you how good they are?

[jase1]

However good, or bad a disc, rating it purely on how much it costs is pure, unadulterated prejudice.

With that logic, Mitsui DVD-Rs should be the best in the business. Err, no. That's bullsh*t actually, because MAM DVD-Rs make even the like of Longten look brilliant.

[geobon]

The most expensive DVD-R media ive come across is pioneer & apple, So does that make them sh@te? And jase1 what planet are you on m8, I have tried these discs and their junk so stating that my comments are pure, unadulterated prejudice due to the price is way of the mark, I was mearly answering jester's comments about what crap 4x media can be had for around the 20p mark, If they work for you fine (Although all media seems to work perfect for you somehow) They don't for me and if they did i'd be more than happy to use them at that price, Everyone loves a bargain so i dont see why im being prejudice because of the price.

[PhilEnfield]

Datawrite Reds are INFOSMART..01 this week :D

[jase1]

The most expensive DVD-R media ive come across is pioneer & apple, So does that make them sh@te? And jase1 what planet are you on m8, I have tried these discs and their junk so stating that my comments are pure, unadulterated prejudice due to the price is way of the mark, I was mearly answering jester's comments about what crap 4x media can be had for around the 20p mark, If they work for you fine (Although all media seems to work perfect for you somehow) They don't for me and if they did i'd be more than happy to use them at that price, Everyone loves a bargain so i dont see why im being prejudice because of the price.You clearly missed the point there. You said:

"26p" Dosen't that tell you how good they are?I am not making any comments on the quality or otherwise of any media; but that comment clearly implies that you consider media of a certain price to be bad, and that the price is automatically an indicator of quality, or otherwise. If you don't mean that, then you should not have said so.

rating it purely on how much it costs is pure, unadulterated prejudice.I was criticising an idea, not an individual. Not the same thing at all. Unless you genuinely believe that the more you spend, the better you get, which by definition is a prejudiced argument.

You may not be prejudiced against a type of media, but that comment was I'm afraid.

MAM media is sold in a number of outlets, and is very expensive (Mitsui media I have seen sold for as much as £8 a disc only last year). And yet look at OC-Freak's reviews of drives on CD Freaks; the discs rarely are readable past 400Mb. That is an order of magnitude worse than any Infosmart/AN31 or in fact any other disc I have ever come across.

It is an extreme example, but is a perfect reminder of how unrealistic it is to imply a correlation between price and quality. Such a relationship doesn't really exist -- there are good discs and bad discs, compatible ones and incompatible ones. A disc is crap (and the Reds may well be crap as you say) because the manufacturer has used substandard materials, or their QA is no good. A disc is not crap because it is cheap.

Datawrite Reds are INFOSMART..01 this weekAs they have been for the last six months. Oh, I forgot, Infosmart "dye" is different to AN31 "dye" (whatever that is) isn't it? :saywhat:

[PhilEnfield]

Mirror 4x DVD+R Platinium 25 Tub (Infosmart 01) Not many peeps recommending these are there ?

These and AN 31 are in the same league as CMC, AFAIC ..... definitely not for me ;)

The point I was making is ..... the dye this week is INFOSMART..01, which is the 3rd dyetype for this Datawrite disk, so who the hell knows what it may change to or when. No consistency here and it's just as likely possible that someone ordering these will grab an old dye, that's been in the back of a storeroom somewhere, that some unsrupulous dealer wants to unload.

IMO it just aint worth all the hassle of messing around with cheapo unknown stuff .... just to try save a penny. My advice would be to stick to what you know works well for you and give the "so called" bargains a wide birth.

[jase1]

That's completely fair comment. Sticking with what you know works for you is a good way of avoiding being stung.

BTW Third dye type? There have been Princo and AN31/AN30/AN35/Infosmart (all the same with different MID details); third type please?

(Incidentally, you always run the risk of getting old stock; I made the mistake recently of buying some cheap Ritek 2x media at a fair for £8 a spindle which I thought was a good deal; turned out these discs were Ritek G02 which, as I'm sure people who remember them will recall, were total and absolute tosh of the highest order and far worse than AN31 will ever be, nothing like the G03).

[PhilEnfield]

What is this a competition of who knows most ???? :D

1. Princo,
2. AN31/AN30/AN35

and currently Infosmart, which I assume is different.

I originally used the first Reds (Princos), which were reasonably reliable, then thet switched the dye to tha AN 31/30/35 crap, which is when everyone got stung and stopped using them ....... so I assume the current dye must be better .... or do you know something i dont ?

[jase1]

The Infosmart is the same as the AN31 -- exactly the same. AIUI the dye type has not changed. V3 is a marketing gimmick.

You have to cut through a lot of crap where e-net/Datasafe is concerned. It was their marketing that lead to people referring to things like "Plasmon dye" which doesn't exist.

The Manufacturer ID (MID) of a disc is there to tell the writer what writing strategies to use, but it doesn't indicate the dye on the disc. Lots of companies abuse this system (Infosmart are one of them). For example if you buy a disc which is shown up to be "Longten", this doesn't have a Longten dye; no such thing exists. Longten media is produced by a large number of small Hong-Kong makers, all using quite different dye formulations (and generally rather crappy, though not all are).

It's the same with AN31. The AN.. series are test designations provided by Pioneer for manufacturers to produce test-runs of new media manufacturing equipment. Many companies have used them; none of them are supposed to be used on discs sold to the public (hence AN31 media is essentially illegal and Datasafe have been taken to court over illegal imports of media in the past).

Infosmart produce a lot of licenced discs (with the Infosmart... lead-in) and some more unlicenced ones with AN31. But in all other ways except the MID the discs are identical. So Infosmart=AN31.

Infosmart themselves haven't changed their discs recently; they've just improved gradually over time. Whether they are now good enough to be passable, is up to you. But a V3 Datawrite Red this week is no different to a V2 Datawrite Red last week, and I'll put a fiver on "AN31" making a return to the reds within weeks.

which were reasonably reliable, then thet switched the dye to tha AN 31/30/35 crap, which is when everyone got stung and stopped using them
BTW the reds got bad before this; e-net decided to flood the market with inferior Princo media and brand it up as Datawrite Red (I have some here, and it won't write reliably past 2.5Gb on average, which is pathetic). These were apparently D-grade Princo which was brought in very cheaply. Shortly after that, they changed to AN31/Infosmart, and rebranded the Princos as Datawrite Yellow (just about the same time as the 1x Yellows were stopped). I am convinced e-net did this totally deliberately to get rid of the bad Princos in one large shot, and at the same time be able to start selling the Infosmart media which by then had acquired a following under e-net's rival "Mirror" (a Total Media Distribution brand), and also get the 1x Yellow "fanbase" over to the 4x Princos.

There is always a strategy to e-net's devious plans, you know :)

[geobon]

Right jase i get your point but since price dosen't come into it, then please recommend me a very cheap brand thats very good, Because ive yet to find one or i'd be using them.

As for infosmart & AN31 being the same i'll take your word for it, but out of curiousity why is the AN31 (light) and the infosmart (Dark) if there the same.

[jase1]

I've never said price doesn't come into it at all, just that it does not necessarily follow.

As for cheap but good media, give Postech G04 a go. Goallover is a Postech brand, in the fairs for £9.50 for 25.

As for light vs dark, not in my experience!!! ;) They're both a sort of lightish mid-purple to me, exactly the same colour.

[PhilEnfield]

OK ..... I hear what you're saying ..... "infosmart & AN31 are the same" .... I have no way of disproving this, but I am still not convinced, based on my own experience.
I have long since reburnt my valued disks to Traxdata Riteks etc., so I have only got a few Reds left now (thank God).

A few quotes from your post :

"You have to cut through a lot of crap where e-net/Datasafe is concerned"

....... Agreed

"hence AN31 media is essentially illegal and Datasafe have been taken to court over illegal imports of media in the past"

"e-net decided to flood the market with inferior Princo media and brand it up as Datawrite Red"

........ surely these two statements are enought o convince anybody that you cannot trust the Datawrite label and that their consistency of dyes & quality is not dependable.

I understand the points you are making, but many new users read these forums and I would hate to see them ripped off by the Datawrite crooks.

BTW, unless I dreamt it Mirror did the same dye change trick, leaving folk in a similar position as those who ordered up loads of Datawrite Reds, after the early batches proved half decent.

[jase1]

surely these two statements are enought o convince anybody that you cannot trust the Datawrite label and that their consistency of dyes & quality is not dependable.
Yup. Totally agree.

One of the things that annoys me about the media world is the way unscrupulous distributors will mix in low-grade stock with decent media without warning anyone, and then users, having been fed the line about all media by manufacturer X being the same quality (a myth), blame the manufacturers for the problems they experience when in fact it's the distributors.

A prime example is Prodisc. A Good Prodisc S03 is the equal of just about any Taiwanese disc on the market. But any manufacturer produces a certain percentage of bad discs. If you get some of these it's easy to blame the manufacturer but in most cases it isn't their fault.

Even Princo can be contracted to produce consistently good media, but they're on the end of the price scale that attracts the charlatans unfortunately.

[sunama]

for what its worth, ive burnt 50 or so datawrite redtop v2 (AN32) disks. some of them are about 6 months old now and they all read back fine. the nero dvd-speed curve looks pretty much the same to me as it did when i first burned these disks. the bad thing about these disks though is that even the slightest scratch can render them unreadable.

i havent had any problems with dvds deteriorating over time. this has happened to me with cd-rs. i have old traxdata disks that i burned some 3 yrs back which are now unreadable. ive only been burning dvd-r disks for about 9 months or so and every disk that was readable after burning is still readable today. this includes ritek G03, G04, datawrite AN32 and memorex dvd+rw disks.

to date, the best disk ive burned have been on Ritek G04 (after turning out a lot of coasters initially, due to firmware issues) and the worst disks have been Ritek G03 (totally inconsistent and turned out a lot of coasters. changing firmware hasnt resolved this issue).

[dcjapanman]

I always use max speed (4x) on Ritek disks.