Urgent help with PC required... can only get into safe mode.

[Where Did I Go?]

Hi all,

my system will only let me access safe mode. if I try and access windows normally it sometimes doesn't load, sometimes it boots then restarts.

I've been into safe mode and disabled the automatic restart, and tried rebooting. Then I just get a blue screen, with a stop error "0x0000007F" and some codes after.

I've searched and all I find is its something todo with kernal\memory\system failure. :s

Could it just be faulty memory? Lately I've had another post, as I was having problems loading, getting an error Disk Boot Failure - Insert System Disk and Press Enter.
What you think, memory? hdd? other? any way of finding out?

thats a Maxtor 6B200M0 SATA 200gb.

Its got 512 memory (think its Crucial, cant remember what type will have to look tomorrow, coz I'm shattered at the min).
Motherboard is an Abit AS8-V

Appreciate any assistance possible

Thanks?

[Where Did I Go?]

Found this...

http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=822789

I do have Norton Antivirus and Firewall on the system (have done since it was built).

But, one thing to note, I've never actually seen the error code and the bit about kernel aswell, just that stop code (and the other ones in brackets, will get them incase they are of use).

Whats kernel :s

Any ideas

edit. no new hardwhare. Just as it was since build around x-mas 04. so less than a year old.

[PhilEnfield]

.... just checking .... you dont have a floppy in your A: Drive do you ?

[Where Did I Go?]

Nope, no floppy in drive

[PhilEnfield]

It might be a good idea to check your RAM first ... nice 'n simple.

Take out the memory stick or sticks and reseat them. If more than one, leave one out and boot the system with one stick only. If no better, try with the other one.

I take it the system isn't overclocked ?

[Where Did I Go?]

First off, no machine is not overclocked.

OK, I can try re-seating the ram. will get back to you on this. Is this something that could happen without anyone realising?

Will give it a go in the morning. Anything else to look out for while I'm inside. I'll make sure everything is plugged in.

[Virgin San]

Well "while you are in there" it doesn't hurt to check that all the cables and cards are properly seated too.

You could also download and run memtest (google for it) to check out your memory's well being. I would suggest that, while in safe mode, you run msconfig and switch off everything in the startup column, then see if you are able to boot normally (this will show you if your problem is with Norton).

Other than that, it could be a driver issue also - have you considered system restore? Not a fan of it myself but it must be useful for something :)

[Where Did I Go?]

Hi all,



Ok, I've not opened it up yet. I tried Virgin San's suggestion. I disabled everything in the startup list, in msconfig.

It then DID load into Windows. - I don't know why, but I am getting a feeling that its not running as "smoothly" as it usually does.

I'm not running Memtest in windows.I've only just started it about 6 mins ago. Whats the idea time to run it (I've read the document that came with it), should I leave it for about 4 hours?

I will still check inside to make sure things are seated.

What should be my next course of action.... turning each item in my startup list individually? then restarting to find if the problem re-occurs?

Anything else I should check?
I ran a virus check in safe mode last night, which found nothing aswell.
Cheers

---

edit, been running just over and hour, no errors found as of yet. Will keep monitoring it.

[PhilEnfield]

Yep ... you're on the right track m8 .... it's really a process of elimination.

If the memcheck shows up nothing and it continues to run ok, with all disabled in Start up ..... as you say .... try switching one item on at a time and see if you can identify the culprit.

The problem with XP error messages is they are not always that "intelligent" and they can mean a number of things ;)

[Where Did I Go?]

Ahh right, yes, I've noticed that also, that the error messages relate to a number of possibilites.

Right well its been going just over 2 hrs, still no errors reported.

Will let it go for another hour or possibly two. Open it up. Make sure things are seated correctly, then just try and add things onto the startup proceedure and see where it "trips".

Will keep you posted, thanks for your time so far :)

[Where Did I Go?]

UPDATE

think its got worse

OK, opened up machine. Didn't rub anything (afraid of friction), blew dust away. Memory seems in ok, only one card which is video card, seems ok. hdd seems connected ok.

Anow when I boot machine it sets off some kind of siren on the bit where the Windows XP is loading (where there is that flashing light going across the screen. Then the login screen comes. Then it loads into windows. On the first occassion, Siren just came on every now and again.
I then tried turning a few things on in startup... infact, I turned everything on, except msn, something about ATI, and also anything that mentioned "Symantec". Following this restart, the siren came on on the XP loading page, then from the login page, and it was on continuously.

I seem to remember having tis before, when machine was first built... think it was somehting todo with an alarm for a fan that didn't exist? (South bridge rings a bell), but now its actually booted into windows and the alarm is going. Does that rule out RAM problem, the fact its booting?

Also, when the machine is on the xp loading page the POSTCODE on the motherboard (small lcd screen) shows FF.

tho that then goes, and the beeping\siren continues without this code.

Any ideas.

I'm going to keep looking, but appreciate any help.

[Virgin San]

It seems pretty obvious that it is software related doesn't it? The MS error messages usually refer to just about everything - "I have an error" ... "oh really? Well it could be hardware, software or driver related". "Great, thanks Bill".

[Where Did I Go?]

OK, just turned PC of for 10 mins

Turned in on, booted. Didn't hear anything until it had actually booted into windows. (this was with things on startup).

I just disabled everything again from the startup, and restarted.

I then got the alarm\siren at the windows xp loading screen then again at the login screen. Then I think it was once when windows loaded. Now there is no alarm.

So, if its software, how can the alarm still be going... I've disabled everything at startup. (tho the siren is off).

The case has a window on it, and it looks like the fan on the processor is spinning, + the case has 3 extra fans, they are going (tho I dunno how gd they are), and the psu fan is blowing, so I doubt its because the alarm is going.



Whats more confusing is I hear nothing until I get to the xp loading screen.

I'm going to go and try and boot into safe mode, and see if I still get the alarm, then I could try going through and adding 1 thing at a time to the startup list. Only problem is, why is the alarm now going - wasn't going before (at the start of this post)

Appreciate your time, and any further assistance.

[Where Did I Go?]

latest update: -

Just booted into safe mode.
The siren went off from when I pressed F8, and got the list of options of how to boot. I booted into safe mode, and the siren still going. I get the login page. I login as Administrator (the one setup during installation). alarm still going. Safe mode Loads. siren still going.
I restart machine, siren keeps going. Then it goes off (justbefore it loads the login page). Siren starts going. Windows loads, and siren turns off.

Very Very confused, and worried

EDIT

OK, don't know if this is related, or simply a further complication.

I just installed teh ABIT uGURU thing that came with the motherboard.

Anyway, I noticed something, its saying my CPU is 62 C and my CPU fan is 2400RPM. Why is this so high!?!?!?!

There is also info on voltages - which I don't know anything about.
There are tick boxes about whether it should beep. I was tempted to untick the one next to the CPU temp - but I don't want to change anything, incase I make things worse.

Also if the alarm was about CPU tempt - would that go off when the system is simply loading windows :s

It could be nothing todo with that.

Should I try and figure out why the beep\siren is going, or should I try and see if it will load into windows with or the startup options going? (with or without beeps).

[Where Did I Go?]

Right, ok then,

Just noticed CPU was running fine, no alarms at 60 C.

Turned on Memcheck, alarm started going. Checked this uGURU thing, temp of CPU went up to 77.
Checked the setting of the alarm, its got a shutdown of 85 and an alarm at 75.

OK, think that explains the alarm them. Sounds like this is a different issue to the problems at bootup - or perhaps its coz CPU got past 85 - but I never had an alarm before, and it didn't shutdown, just restart.

OK, so, how do I go about sorting this about.

I rememeber when we were fitting this processor, well moreso the heatsink, we had GREAT problems. Its got the design where you have 4 prongs (?), you have to push and screw in, but we just couldn't get it to go in. We eventually managed it. I'm afraid that it may not be on properly, but I don't want to remove it, incase I can't get it on.

Any ideas?

[Where Did I Go?]

OK, next update...
Sorry, I would just edit each post, but it is prolly a little bit easier to understand if I separate things out.

Right, I've just added things onto the startup proceedure - pretty much everything things relating to symantec\norton.

The beeping came for a bit then stopped - which I assume to be the CPU getting hard processing the extra things at startup.

So,

Do I now risk adding syantec things? - spose I could always turn them off.
I think my main concern at the min is damaging the CPU! Should I risk trying to re-fit it. What happens if I don't get it right, I've never really fitted out. The person who did has now moved. :(


Edit............

OK, turned machine off as very worried about temperature after reading through google a little.

The processor came with its own heatsink. Its an intel P4, 3gb. (Not really that good with motherboards\cpus\fans). The lad who helped built it had some thermal compound with him. He was about to apply it, but he showed me, there was a square pad like think underneath the fan. He said thats enough and it'll be good. Machine has ran fine since then. I don't know, I may have simply knocked it when I was clowing dust out. - like one of the prongs maynot be in properly.

I've read though, if I remove it, I can't simply re-install it, because I'd need to remove the thermal compound and put some new stuff on.
I wouldn't have any idea what do do here.. usually I'd risk trying it, but I wouldn't in this situation, as I'm worried I'm going to make things worse.

I'm not even saying its come loose, I wouldn't know. Just a possibility. Would this be a reasonable explanation. Looking inside the case through the window its still sitting ontop of the CPU, its not like fallen or anything, so maybe only one prong is out... could that amount to such drastic temperatures.




I think i should try and sort this problem out before I look at adding anything else to the startup... and finding out if its really Norton.


Appreciate your help

[Virgin San]

:laugh:

Heres a theory m8 - symantec is a well known resource hog, if you've got extreme temperature problems then maybe when it comes to chew through all of symantecs start up shite, the cpu overheats and the mobo cuts you out.

Obvious thing to do is open the case and check the seating of the heatsink (and everything else naturally ...), consider getting a new heatsink and a better fan. Maybe some case fans ...

[Where Did I Go?]

hmmm, right, spose I can see the funny side. - though not as much as you! lol

I can understand your logic, with the resources making machine cut out.

But thats fair enough, I can see that, but why is my CPU running at 58-60degrees c when its doing NOTHING? - I'm no expert but that seems high.

Bearing in mind thats without Symantec options selected at startup. I could try unistalling these, but I see no point, because they shouldn't be running. + when they were selected... and the machine cut out I never heard the alarm\siren atall.

I know the obbvious thing is to check the seating of the heatsink, but I may do more harm than good! Plus can I refit the fan as it is, or do I have to put more thermal compound. I don't know :s


As far as fans go. There is the CPU fan that came with teh CPU.
2 little LED fans on the side of the case - below the window.
One fan on the back if the case, where all the ports are (i.e next to usb and ps2 ports)
fan in psu, but think thats just working for the psu.

I wouldn't even know how or where to fit a new fan.

I could try it with the side of the case off, but I am still worried about teh CPU. I thought that 50 was high but acceptable. Mine is idle at 58-60. and getting upto like 80 if I run things like memcheck.
I've just ran in to transfer some files across our home network to another machine and it did stay between 58-60, but I am trying to leave the machine off now until I know what to do :confused:

really don't know what to do...

[PhilEnfield]

Well ... if the CPU continues to overheat .... sooner or later you will have to bite the bullit and check and/or remove the heatsink/fan or get someone to do it for you.

Having removed it, you will need to clean off all the existing thermal paste from the heatsink & CPU and then re-apply a thin layer to refit it.

The pdf manuals here will give you an idea of what's involved : http://www.intel.com/support/processors/manuals/index.htm

If you decide to buy a new heatsink, the likelyhood is it will come with the paste or there will be a square of paste already applied, which is revealed by removing a plastic cover/paper ... similar to your original.

I agree with your logic ..... i.e. sort this out first ;)

[Where Did I Go?]

ok, I will read that pdf, and see how I feel. I'm not comfortable with the stuff about removing the old paste and putting new on. And secondly, putting the heatsink back on, I can see being a pain.

I've been reading round in google for a new, possibly better\faster heatsink and other fans. but I dunno whats good and whats not. + dunno where I'd be able to fit new fans :confused:

OK, let me read that pdf, and take it from there

Cheers

[Virgin San]

See if you can find some methylphenidate while you are at it ;)

[Where Did I Go?]

ok, just read that file. It sounds so simple fitting the heatsink. I'll have you know it wasn't when we first put it in!

Mr San, see if I can find some what lololololol....? geees **does a google on that word*

anyway, still thinking what to do, will consider.

[Where Did I Go?]

Hi guys,

OK, took the plundge, had a look at the fan. Think I;ve made an improvement, its now runnin idle at bout 48-52. Still hight, but better than yesterday. I've seen it get upto about 70 earlier, but not heard the alarm today (touches wood).

Anyway, I've had a play with the startup items.

I turned everything on that didn't mention norton or symantec. Seemed to be fine.
I then started adding things. restarting after each one.
The items that I've got are: -

ADVCHK (tho this one may not be norton)
ccApp
ccRegVfy
IAMAPP
UsrPrompt

It was going well. Iturned them all on, and was fine UNTILL I turned on IAMAPP. Then it started restarting (sometimes after booting into windows, sometimes before).
So I used the logic, if I go into safe mode.. turn that one off, it should be fine. but no, I had problems getting back into windows and not restarting even after this was turned off.

Anyway.

The system is now booted into windows, with all the startup items going - except IAMAPP, and its still in Windows - not restarted. CPU temp is sitting at about 45 C, which I think is a step in the right direction.

Now, I thought perhaps if I unistall the firewall, I could see what happens, then perhaps re-install.

But, if I ty to uninstall it says:

"A Norton Personal Firewall accound with supervisor access must be logged in to uninstall this product. If Norton Personal Firewall is not currently running please run it from the start menu and log in".

I've got no account details btw :s

Anyway, so I open up Norton Personal Firewall, and its disabled - and it wont let me enable it. so I close it. I still get the same error.

So I tried putting in the NPF cd in. - thinking I can either reinstall ontop, or preferably run a recovery or fix thing. But the disk automatically tried to uninstall, and gives me the same error.

One other point, I went into safe mode trying to uninstall there, but it wont let me.



So, I ask from you... is this temp still too high? And also, what should be my next step? I think I've figured out its NPF (though have to say can't be 100%).

Appreciate your assistance :)

Edit: -

Would this be of any use?
http://service1.symantec.com/SUPPORT/nip.nsf/docid/2001090510510636

I have Norton Antivirus 2002 and Norton Personal Firewall 2003 on the system

[Virgin San]

:laugh:

No luck with the Ritalin then I see ;)

Yes, use the tool for removing NPF, and search for a similar tool to remove NAV (as I recall it is called RNAV.EXE, that should help your search.) Remove both. Personally I would recommend installing a freeware firewall (ZA, Kerio, Sygate) and a freeware AV (AVG etc etc).

BTW, its a cooler day here than it was yesterday, perhaps thats why your temps are lower ;)

[Where Did I Go?]

OK, I took your advice, and took off both Norton Personal Firewall, and Norton Antivirus.
Restarting after each.

I then decided to go against your advice... by putting both of these back on. Now, Now system seems to be running fine. (as much as I can tell). Its booting up and no alarms going, which is a start.

So let me take this opportunity to thank you both for your time and assistance with all of this.

Now, one queory, the CPU is fluctuating between about 45 and 67 (idle, working ect).

Is this too much?

As far as cooling goes, the case came with 3 fans - 2 on the saide panel under the window. 1 on the back. There is then 2 on the PSU (one inside case 1 out), and the one of the CPU.

Only the one on the CPU is connected to the motherboard. the PSU's are obviously internal. the other 3 case fans are simply connected to the power connections from the PSU.

I noticed on the motherboard there was a 3 pin connection marked "NBFAN1" - which I take to be a connection for a Northbridge fan. This had nothing connected.

My question is, does it need some other form of cooling, if so, any recommendations.

I'll report back in a few days as to how the PC is going.

Thanks again for your time and assistance :)

[PhilEnfield]

As far as Norton is concerned, I would never put it on any of my boxes ... it's bloatware of the worst type and definitely hogs resources. I use AVG AV and Zone Alarm, behind a Router and this has kept me clean for a good few years, even b4 the Router. I have seen many boxes become corrupted, after Norton has gone "pear shaped" on them and often the only way of sorting them has been a format/reinstall of XP.

Your cpu temp is a little on the high side, but short of removing the heatsink, cleaning it & the CPU/repllying some Artic Silver, I doubt you'll solve that one.
Three case fans would seem to be adequate as well.

[Virgin San]

Yup, I also use AVG, ZA and hide behind a router (very recently), also without problems ever. You have already experienced how Norton can screw your system - and you find the longer its on there the worse things get - so effectively you have just bought yourself some time before it goes off again. Bookmark this thread and ignore advice at your own peril.

[Where Did I Go?]

Hmmm, lol, well I'd have to read into it them, as to be fair this pairing has kepy all my systems safe.

If I were to use AVG+ZA would that be enough.

I have no router. My net is shared across home network through a host machine that has an ADSL modem internally (PCI).

As far as temps go, I'll have to see if I can get someone to help me out with that to be honnest.

[PhilEnfield]

I think if you were to do a survey on here, most folk would say AVG and ZA is a good combo and will give you at least the same protection as Norton, with or without a Router.

Many folk are attracted to the respectability of the big names, like Norton and assume that the freeware offerings are inferior. This just isn't so. In fact there is plenty of evidence to suggest the opposite. Without getting into a debate about which is best ..... I would say that Norton doesn't do a bad job, when it's working.
The trouble is it often gets itself corrupted and sometimes brings the whole system down. I have seen at least half a dozen boxes, ove the years, where the only solution has been a reformat, losing valuable data/files.

IMO Norton has become too big (bloatware) and has become cumbersome, by them bolting on more and more options, that most folk domt understand or need.
Norton have had to release a removal tool, for folk that cant remove all of it's files etc., when they wish to uninstall ..... this speaks mountains IMO.

HTH ;)

[Where Did I Go?]

Thank you for your time. Some thing to think about there.

Much appreciated :cheers: